Author Topic: Q to hosters  (Read 6951 times)

Kelthar

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Re: Q to hosters
« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2014, 04:18:12 pm »
 :-[ I do run my own hosting services though.

Oh well... I stand by my idea, whether I belong to the "group" or not.

Profforg

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Re: Q to hosters
« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2014, 04:21:43 pm »
:-[ I do run my own hosting services though.

Oh well... I stand by my idea, whether I belong to the "group" or not.
I know :)

I don't really think, that there are any options which can be compared to determinate 'quality'. That's why your phrase
Quote
how many would actually host quality bots
is ridiculous.
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Kelthar

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Re: Q to hosters
« Reply #17 on: February 27, 2014, 04:39:29 pm »
Ummn true. By "quality" I meant non-household bots. There would definitely be a few people hosting on their home computers, but I think they'd be doing more harm than good. Making the bots linux-only should severely limit the "bad" hosts.

Profforg

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Re: Q to hosters
« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2014, 04:44:54 pm »
Ummn true. By "quality" I meant non-household bots. There would definitely be a few people hosting on their home computers, but I think they'd be doing more harm than good. Making the bots linux-only should severely limit the "bad" hosts.
Oh, i am sure Grief-Code will ignore household bots owners :)
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Grief-Code

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Re: Q to hosters
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2014, 12:54:15 am »
Ummn true. By "quality" I meant non-household bots. There would definitely be a few people hosting on their home computers, but I think they'd be doing more harm than good. Making the bots linux-only should severely limit the "bad" hosts.
Oh, i am sure Grief-Code will ignore household bots owners :)

I guess you are right.
However with all the offer we already have  a lot hosting options and we want to create quality games and not quantity.

Just in case as example (im a bit crazy, but i did it) i connected gcb to 798 rooms (this are ALL dota rooms) the result was, we spammed the garena platform, not that we can avoid this but simple
'Bot has created a game', we cant even avoid this message because its generated by garena. The games filled within  ~3 seconds,on all 8 bots, the result was a massive spam, that i stopped the broadcasting after a half day, the result can be now found if you search for 'OHL_DotA Garena' on google :-D

I guess a non spam idea would be to integrate the persist lobby patch, the game is created once and no more spamming, and the games will even fill a lot faster. But we reached after 5 hours of this massive hosting 200GB Traffic, this is also a way too much, on bnet we reach 200GB traffic after 2 weeks on normal hosting ^^
This was just a side information from what im going now to explain, about 95% of the games ended early (after 7 min) by autoend.
Leaverratio was 70% per game. (Most leavers: russian, indian).

So there some things and ideas to solve:
- How can we get quality games (non leaving in games and besides hackfree)?
- How can we hold players on our system, that they want to play furthere games and enjoy the play?
- What are the best resources we can have?
- What are the best control options?

- How can we get quality games (non leaving in games and besides hackfree)?
I guess the best way for this is simple a connection tool, ther problem is what is the privacy for the players. Is it a good option to sniff their warcraft direction for any injection files? Isnt that too much in the privacy of players?
How about another solution uakf.b has spoken off, to check the sended packets and match them? But what about smaller modifications then, manabars(i dont even think this should be forbidden), map modifications, warcraft 3 modifications (dont they influence packet sizes? I dont know)

- How can we hold players on our system, that they want to play furthere games and enjoy the play?
Well we have actually a real good base, ohsystem is made and is develope to connect gamers and make their life on our bots easy and enjoyable. We want that players have fun on our bots and like to enjoy the games. And of course we want to bind players, how is that possible? Just something from my ideas what is implented and what is currently in process and what will be upcoming:
  • A double score event (some people might know the system of BF4(BF3), there was a double exp weekend, we already implement that we have all 2 weeks a double score sunday. People really apperciate and like that.)
  • A good and fundamental EXP system, score is on our bots monthly, reviewable from diffrent months and overall on statspage and bot aswell, but an exp system will count all stuff you do. Games, dotastats, activity all can be rewarded aswell as our next point
  • Goal system, how about a limited goal which is reachable within 12 hours or 24 hours, play 5 games, or reach more than 50 kills
This is just  a small thing what we have half implement in our system, but we are constantly working on concepts and new ideas.

- What are the best resources we can have?
The best resources are actually from hosters, non private hosters. The best option and idea behind the whole system is once a closed source project. A good encrypting for all datas which are send and at least a whitelist for hosters. New hosters need first to prove that they have a decent connection and later they can be whitelisted by IP, else they have no connection to our database which will result in an automatic shutdown of the bot.
So we can simple limit all totally. If anytime someone hacks our system we obivusly can easily know that this was one of the hosters. And this can be easily traced on the IP and we can simple drop the IP from our whitelist.
This will also prevent simple the problem @SirRogers mentioned.

- What are the best control options?
Aswell as the option to whitelist bots, the hosters have only access to one config, and this is to set themself as a rootadmin. They have of course full control regarding, stop, restart, start and bot commands, but we as central station have some more options like kill bots from remote. This will be done via mysql command patches.

So this was a general aspect what we are(i am) thinking about and what need to be solved. Ofc this are not all problems, there ofc some more but this are now the major ideas and thoughts.

Regards

Ps: We are currently not working on dev this, we have a lot other stuff todo so it will probably take some weeks. I've also found a new issue on the system, sometimes the bot get stuck on 100% CPU usage, but im not sure if this could be also maprelating.

Profforg

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Re: Q to hosters
« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2014, 01:01:17 am »
I guess a non spam idea would be to integrate the persist lobby patch, the game is created once and no more spamming
It does not work on Garena.

Everytime player clicks 'Local network' or 'Local area' (i don't know how is it called on English locale), he received a list of games and new messages in chat appear.

Quote
- How can we get quality games (non leaving in games and besides hackfree)?
I guess the best way for this is simple a connection tool, ther problem is what is the privacy for the players. Is it a good option to sniff their warcraft direction for any injection files? Isnt that too much in the privacy of players?
How about another solution uakf.b has spoken off, to check the sended packets and match them? But what about smaller modifications then, manabars(i dont even think this should be forbidden), map modifications, warcraft 3 modifications (dont they influence packet sizes? I dont know)
That's all client-side. Undetectable for server without client modification. No influence on packets.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2014, 01:03:51 am by Profforg »
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Grief-Code

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Re: Q to hosters
« Reply #21 on: February 28, 2014, 01:07:53 am »
Ok this is good to know, so i dont waste my time on that.

Ok but isnt there an influence on the sended packets if someone is using a hack?
Correct me if im wrong but isnt that the intention behind wc3connect and the AMH games?


Profforg

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Re: Q to hosters
« Reply #22 on: February 28, 2014, 01:10:35 am »
Ok but isnt there an influence on the sended packets if someone is using a hack?
Correct me if im wrong but isnt that the intention behind wc3connect and the AMH games?
It has nothing with 'packets'. Hack is like additional DLL for game. For example maphack just add additional view layer, which overwrite default view layer. It works fully on view level.
Some hacks, for example gold hack, should add additional packet sent, but it will look normal.

Any client modifications should be able to be filtered with AMH.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2014, 01:13:46 am by Profforg »
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Grief-Code

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Re: Q to hosters
« Reply #23 on: February 28, 2014, 01:18:30 am »
Well ok, then our last way seems to be the sniffing of the direction.

However, a user could start the client and use another direction for wrcraft3 as he added as path to the client...

Profforg

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Re: Q to hosters
« Reply #24 on: February 28, 2014, 01:20:42 am »
Well ok, then our last way seems to be the sniffing of the direction.

However, a user could start the client and use another direction for wrcraft3 as he added as path to the client...
I think AMH built very well. It should be very hard to bypass. You can't just change direction, you'll not able to join game then.
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Grief-Code

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Re: Q to hosters
« Reply #25 on: February 28, 2014, 01:23:09 am »
Well ok, then our last way seems to be the sniffing of the direction.

However, a user could start the client and use another direction for wrcraft3 as he added as path to the client...
I think AMH built very well. It should be very hard to bypass. You can't just change direction, you'll not able to join game then.

Yea i guess ;-) But this does require more sniffing. Which i normally try to avoid. We need to check when if warcraft was started throw the client, and if it was stopped, then stop the broadcast, else continue.

Profforg

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Re: Q to hosters
« Reply #26 on: February 28, 2014, 01:25:31 am »
Well ok, then our last way seems to be the sniffing of the direction.

However, a user could start the client and use another direction for wrcraft3 as he added as path to the client...
I think AMH built very well. It should be very hard to bypass. You can't just change direction, you'll not able to join game then.

Yea i guess ;-) But this does require more sniffing. Which i normally try to avoid. We need to check when if warcraft was started throw the client, and if it was stopped, then stop the broadcast, else continue.
It is built-in already, as i know. When user join - it checks is game running via AMH or not. If game is AMH-enabled and user is not using AMH - he'll be rejected :)
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Grief-Code

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Re: Q to hosters
« Reply #27 on: February 28, 2014, 01:38:11 am »
That sounds great, but i guess there is a problem with it:
https://www.ghostpp.com/forum/index.php?topic=44.msg540#msg540
« Last Edit: February 28, 2014, 01:42:59 am by Grief-Code »

Profforg

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Re: Q to hosters
« Reply #28 on: February 28, 2014, 01:40:59 am »
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